Comments on: Abortion debate out of control? http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42 An opportunity to discuss a range of issues, hosted by Anne Summers. Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:18:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: melanie http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-25 melanie Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:08:00 +0000 http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42#comment-25 John Gardiner: We had the debate many years ago. If it interests you, you could save us a lot of trouble by going back to read all about it. 1) People are reckless with their bodies in many more ways than having sex. Smoking, driving dangerously, playing football, drinking beer, eating too much salt, cholesterol, sugar etc. Maybe you think we should have no public health care at all? 2) The child will not exist until it is delivered. Until then it is basically a parasite feeding upon the woman's body. The reality in this world is that once the child is born, the mother will do 90% of the work required to raise it. She is the one whose career will be put on hold and whose days and nights will be taken over by the tasks of child rearing. What you are asking for is the right of men to make decisions about what will happen to the woman's future (both during the first 9 months and for many years - possibly a whole lifetime thereafter). Until men are prepared to contribute equally to the work and women are no longer hampered in their career prospects by having children, there can be no such right for men. 3) Children are not possessions that you decide to keep or abandon. They are human beings with the right to have the best possible chance in life. They do not deserve to be condemned to poverty or an unloved existence because one or more of their parents have made a mistake. Nobody should ever have kids until they are absolutely ready to make the commitment. John Gardiner:
We had the debate many years ago. If it interests you, you could save us a lot of trouble by going back to read all about it.

1) People are reckless with their bodies in many more ways than having sex. Smoking, driving dangerously, playing football, drinking beer, eating too much salt, cholesterol, sugar etc. Maybe you think we should have no public health care at all?

2) The child will not exist until it is delivered. Until then it is basically a parasite feeding upon the woman’s body. The reality in this world is that once the child is born, the mother will do 90% of the work required to raise it. She is the one whose career will be put on hold and whose days and nights will be taken over by the tasks of child rearing. What you are asking for is the right of men to make decisions about what will happen to the woman’s future (both during the first 9 months and for many years - possibly a whole lifetime thereafter). Until men are prepared to contribute equally to the work and women are no longer hampered in their career prospects by having children, there can be no such right for men.

3) Children are not possessions that you decide to keep or abandon. They are human beings with the right to have the best possible chance in life. They do not deserve to be condemned to poverty or an unloved existence because one or more of their parents have made a mistake. Nobody should ever have kids until they are absolutely ready to make the commitment.

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By: Jenn http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-24 Jenn Sat, 20 Nov 2004 04:18:00 +0000 http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42#comment-24 Wouldn't most late term abortions be for medical reasons? especially where a foetus is found to be not viable? In my own case the foetus had been dead six weeks. I would surely be dead without the induced abortion. Wouldn’t most late term abortions be for medical reasons? especially where a foetus is found to be not viable?

In my own case the foetus had been dead six weeks. I would surely be dead without the induced abortion.

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By: Anonymous http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-23 Anonymous Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:39:00 +0000 http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42#comment-23 "Make a lot of noise". Yes, a very good idea. But isn't that exactly what having a debate is all about - to make a lot of noise and to get people to listen to you? It is a good idea to discuss this matter, and loudly. There's a lot more to it than just a "woman's right to choose" or a woman's right to "control her own body" - lots more. For a start, just like any man, a woman has the right to choose and take control over her own body at the time she has sex. It's called "No!" The same rights and responsibilities as any man has - yet we know that many men and women, in reality, are not responsible in the control of their own bodies or choices. Why should society be expected to pay for these irresponsible people's mistakes? It needs to be debated. Next, there are major inequalities between the rights of men and women under current legislation concerning abortion. Presently, a man's right to choose isn't considered at all. A woman has the right to continue with the pregnancy, give the baby up for adoption or to abort it. A man has no such equal right to choose, even though he will be held responsible, financially and morally, to support the child for at least the next 18 years should the woman decide alone to take the pregnancy to birth. Where's the equality in that? There isn't any. It needs to be debated. And, what if the father wants to keep and raise the child whilst the woman doesn't? It's his child too. What about the father's rights to his own child? He doesn't have any. It needs to be debated. And then there's the major point of who pays for the medical procedure of abortions? If the government pays for the procedure (Medicare), then the government has a right to be involved with the decision making process - and the government is the voice of the people, so those people hold that right to be involved in the decision making process. And many people disagree with abortion on moral or religious grounds. So what about their rights? Presently they don't have any. It needs to be debated. So there's a lot to debate about on this matter of abortion, much more than just simply some "woman's right to choose" - an awful lot more. So I agree, let's make lots of noise about abortion. It's been hushed up, hidden away and discretely swept under the carpet for way too long now. It's time to get it all out into the open and shine the good light of day upon it. I'm with you, let's all make lots of noise! I know I will. John Gardiner “Make a lot of noise”.

Yes, a very good idea. But isn’t that exactly what having a debate is all about - to make a lot of noise and to get people to listen to you?

It is a good idea to discuss this matter, and loudly.

There’s a lot more to it than just a “woman’s right to choose” or a woman’s right to “control her own body” - lots more.

For a start, just like any man, a woman has the right to choose and take control over her own body at the time she has sex. It’s called “No!” The same rights and responsibilities as any man has - yet we know that many men and women, in reality, are not responsible in the control of their own bodies or choices.

Why should society be expected to pay for these irresponsible people’s mistakes?

It needs to be debated.

Next, there are major inequalities between the rights of men and women under current legislation concerning abortion. Presently, a man’s right to choose isn’t considered at all. A woman has the right to continue with the pregnancy, give the baby up for adoption or to abort it. A man has no such equal right to choose, even though he will be held responsible, financially and morally, to support the child for at least the next 18 years should the woman decide alone to take the pregnancy to birth.

Where’s the equality in that?

There isn’t any. It needs to be debated.

And, what if the father wants to keep and raise the child whilst the woman doesn’t? It’s his child too. What about the father’s rights to his own child?

He doesn’t have any. It needs to be debated.

And then there’s the major point of who pays for the medical procedure of abortions?

If the government pays for the procedure (Medicare), then the government has a right to be involved with the decision making process - and the government is the voice of the people, so those people hold that right to be involved in the decision making process.

And many people disagree with abortion on moral or religious grounds.

So what about their rights?

Presently they don’t have any. It needs to be debated.

So there’s a lot to debate about on this matter of abortion, much more than just simply some “woman’s right to choose” - an awful lot more.

So I agree, let’s make lots of noise about abortion. It’s been hushed up, hidden away and discretely swept under the carpet for way too long now. It’s time to get it all out into the open and shine the good light of day upon it.

I’m with you, let’s all make lots of noise!

I know I will.

John Gardiner

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By: melanie http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-22 melanie Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:24:00 +0000 http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42#comment-22 This post has been removed by the author. This post has been removed by the author.

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By: melanie http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-21 melanie Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:22:00 +0000 http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42#comment-21 Reply to previous comment: Make a lot of noise. Anne, thanks for the facts, but personally I don't care if the abortion rate is going up or down. It should not be a relevant statistic (except in so far as it measures the progress of contraceptive technology). What is relevant is my right to determine the course of my life in the same way and to the exact same extent that any man in this country can do. Reply to previous comment: Make a lot of noise.

Anne, thanks for the facts, but personally I don’t care if the abortion rate is going up or down. It should not be a relevant statistic (except in so far as it measures the progress of contraceptive technology).

What is relevant is my right to determine the course of my life in the same way and to the exact same extent that any man in this country can do.

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By: Anonymous http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-20 Anonymous Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:07:00 +0000 http://annesummers.com.au/blog/?p=42#comment-20 Anne, I cannot believe this is happening in 2005. I keep hoping to walk back through the Looking Glass! The agenda is clear: back to the 50s: out of the workforce and start breeding nice clean white Australians. How do we fight this? Anne, I cannot believe this is happening in 2005. I keep hoping to walk back through the Looking Glass!

The agenda is clear: back to the 50s: out of the workforce and start breeding nice clean white Australians.

How do we fight this?

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